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11/30/04:
More on Mouw
Unless you have been monitoring a wide
variety of sources, you might think my response
to, and refutation of, Fuller Seminary President
Richard Mouw’s comments in the Tabernacle in
Salt Lake City was harsh. In comparison to the
rhetoric of some, I’m a cupcake. But,
thankfully, by avoiding the extraneous
arm-waving and calls for jihads I hope that I
have touched upon the real issue with far more
focus and force than those who have chosen the
“nuclear” alternative.
Mouw continues to defend his statements.
Today another e-mail began circulating. I cite
three numbered points:
(1) I have talked to enough Mormon missionaries at my front door to
know that there is a significant gap between
what most of them say--and have been taught--and
what we are hearing from our LDS scholar
friends. But there is still a discernible
change. Many of them watch Christian television
and have a kind of mix of views--some very far
removed from biblical teaching and others fairly
close. Indeed one young missionary told me that
the person whose message he most admires is
Billy Graham. On the level of LDS scholarship,
we have talked at length with people we have
come to know very well and we are all
convinced--and not just me but folks with
impeccable evangelical credentials--that our
Mormon friends are aware of the popular
teachings and are determined to influence things
in the direction of salvation by grace alone.
Dr. Mouw, what you hear from a few LDS
missionaries reflects what they have been taught
by the official leadership of the LDS Church.
Is anyone else as amazed as I am at the attitude
of this scholar who looks at the chosen,
ordained leadership of an entire religion as
being utterly irrelevant to the definition of
the beliefs of that religion? Would Mouw accept
someone defining his own Reformed heritage on
the basis of a liberal professor at a university
somewhere without any reference to such things
as the Heidelberg Confession? Maybe he would,
but I would surely hope not. Has the range of
beliefs expressed within the pale of Mormonism
expanded over the past number of decades? It
surely has, from top to bottom. But upon what
principle are we to ignore the very leadership
of the church and by some academic divine fiat
proclaim progressive BYU scholars the new
leaders of Mormonism? I do recall getting in
trouble years ago on a particular apologetics
discussion list for tangling with one of the
Mosser/Owen duo who made it quite clear that
they viewed the General Authorities of the LDS
Church as dinosaurs and that BYU scholars spoke
for Mormonism. As I have said often, that day
may come: but Mouw faulted those of us who
preceded him in the field of LDS evangelism for
misrepresenting Mormonism, and upon what basis?
We dared to accurately represent the official
views of the church rather than peer into our
crystal balls and respond to a not-yet-existent
Mormonism.
Now, Mouw mentions a Mormon missionary that
admires Billy Graham. That is indeed a new
thing, in many ways. But again, upon what
logical basis do we grant to a 19 year old
missionary the definitional authority of
theological teaching that is clearly claimed by
the General Authorities of the Mormon Church and
yet denied them by Mouw and his colleagues? [continue
this article]
Today
on the DL
On the
program today I began reviewing Kelly Powers'
attempted response to me on John 6:44 and
"Calvinism." Once again, the review is
useful in illustrating methods of eisegesis
which can be helpful not only in responding to
the traditional views of inconsistent Arminians
but in recognizing the same errors in many other
contexts as well. On the upside, once
again we see the wondrous consistency of
Scripture and its testimony to God's saving
power.
11/29/04: Dave
Hunt Interview on Debating Calvinism on
Viewpoint This Coming Wednesday
I am
scheduled to do a one-hour radio broadcast with
Dave Hunt on the Viewpoint radio program
with host Chuck Crismier this coming Wednesday
at 4PM ET.
Here is the link. I believe you can
listen on line. There are archives as well
for those who will not be able to listen at that
time. One hour isn't much, but it's better
than nothing. I will still be hoping to
ask Dave why we can't schedule that live debate
he's agreed to repeatedly in the past, and why
he is telling folks I don't want Debating
Calvinism in print. Should be
interesting!
11/28/04: Review
of Faith Under Fire Segments
Robert
Millet's presentation on the 11/27 episode of
Faith Under Fire was truly an excellent
example of the "modern" Mormon viewpoint that is
actively seeking to shift the emphasis that had
existed in Mormon theology from the last days of
Joseph Smith all the way through Joseph Fielding
Smith and Bruce R. McConkie. Those familiar
with the sermons and teachings of Brigham Young
and the early LDS prophets and Apostles (such as
those represented by the 26 volumes of the
Journal of Discourses) all the way through
such monumental works as Articles of Faith
and Jesus the Christ (James Talmage) into
such modern works as A Marvelous Work and a
Wonder (LeGrand Richards), Doctrines of
Salvation (Joseph Fielding Smith) and
Mormon Doctrine (Bruce R. McConkie) know
well the centrality of the King Follet Funeral
Discourse in which Joseph Smith said:
I will
prove that the world is wrong, by showing
what God is. I am going to enquire after
God; for I want you all to know him, and to
be familiar with him; and if I am bringing
you to a knowledge of him, all persecutions
against me ought to cease. You will then
know that I am his servant; for I speak as
one having authority.…I will go back to the
beginning before the world was, to show what
kind of being God is. What sort of a being
was God in the beginning? Open your ears and
hear, all ye ends of the earth, for I am
going to prove it to you by the Bible, and
to tell you the designs of God in relation
to the human race, and why He interferes
with the affairs of man….God himself was
once as we are now, and is an exalted man,
and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That
is the great secret. If the veil were rent
today, and the great God who holds this
world in its orbit, and who upholds all
worlds and all things by his power, was to
make himself visible,—I say, if you were to
see him today, you would see him like a man
in form—like yourselves in all the person,
image, and very form as a man; for Adam was
created in the very fashion, image and
likeness of God, and received instruction
from, and walked, talked and conversed with
him, as one man talks and communes with
another….In order to understand the
subject of the dead, for consolation of
those who mourn for the loss of their
friends, it is necessary we should
understand the character and being of God
and how he came to be so; for I am going to
tell you how God came to be God. We have
imagined and supposed that God was God from
all eternity. I will refute that idea, and
take away the veil, so that you may see.
These are
incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are
simple. It is the first principle of the
Gospel to know for a certainty the Character
of God, and to know that we may converse
with him as one man converses with another,
and that he was once a man like us; yea,
that God himself, the Father of us all,
dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ
himself did; and I will show it from the
Bible.
Millet,
however, following the lead of the current LDS
prophet, Gordon Hinckley, wishes outsiders to
believe that this teaching of Smith is not
really central to the Mormon faith. Yet, the
fact of the matter is, when you look at the
writings of the Church itself over the past
fifty years you will find that there is no
statement of Joseph Smith cited more often by
the LDS Church itself than the words he uttered
in that very sermon. How odd, then, to hear a
BYU scholar saying they don't really know a lot
about what Joseph Smith said was “the first
principle of the gospel”! Every single Mormon
who received his or her theological education
prior to, say, 1990, well knows that Millet, and
all those who likewise are quite hesitant to
affirm what their religion has unabashedly
taught for over a century, are simply not
telling the whole truth. They are fudging. The
evidence is beyond question.
As I had predicted, there was surely not
enough time to even touch on the issues, but
Greg Johnson gave an acceptable account of
himself (I would have lent him a Rush tie had he
asked for one!).
In the other segment of most interest to
me, that of Shabir Ally vs. Michael Licona, we
heard the same old, oft-refuted arguments from
Ally. Some may wonder why Licona went the
direction he did. I understood his reasoning.
Ally is known for using “liberal” writings and
positions against apologists, and sadly, many
apologists do not know how to respond to that
approach. Licona obviously knew where Ally
would go, and headed him off at the pass,
basically, tailoring his approach to be the most
difficult for Ally to respond to. Obviously, I
would love to have seen the segment last much
longer, but such is the constraints of network
television in America today.
11/27/04: Is
Mormonism Christian on Strobel's Program
I just noted
that the question of Mormonism is going to be
addressed on "Faith Under Fire" this evening on
PAX. But then when I saw who was going to
be on, I just groaned. The LDS side
will be represented by Robert Millet from BYU,
and the Christian side by Greg Johnson.
Those familiar with the situation in Utah know
that both are deeply involved in the recent
happenings in Salt Lake City (key players in
setting it up) and Johnson was one of the
non-Mormon speakers whose comments raised a lot
of questions about the wisdom of the entire
event and those involved with it (see the
discussion of Mouw's denunciation of evangelical
ministries below). Another opportunity for
a clear, open, well documented discussion gone
by the boards, replaced with a mushy
presentation that can only cause confusion.
Thankfully, they won't have much time to create
a lot of confusion given everything else that
will be covered (including an appearance by
Shabir Ally, a Muslim apologist, on the subject
of the deity of Christ---there's one I'll be
watching!).
And So I was Minding My
Own Business...
And Dave Armstrong pops up again and throws me into the
mix of people who turn off the comments sections
of their blogs to hide from refutation.
Uh, earth to DA...news flash, buddy...I haven't
graduated to RSS capable blogging. This is
a plain ol' html file, nothing more.
Someday I may get a real blog, but for the
moment, this is the best we have. So I
have never had comments to begin with, so
I have never turned them off, either. Even
if I had the capacity, I do not believe people
come to my blog to read your interminable
comments anyway. If they wanted to hear us
debate, they could just watch...oh, wait, never
mind. :-)
Yeah, I Saw the
Leithart Stuff
I've started a brief response, but to be honest, does
anyone really understand what he said? Is
there a point here? I feel like these
random thoughts are supposed to be part of a
bigger picture, but the rest of the presentation
disappeared or something. We'll see what
develops.
11/26/04: San
Antonio LDS Temple Opening
Those of you
who are in the Texas area will want to keep an
eye open for the announcement of the dedication
period for the new San Antonio Temple.
Watch for the announcement
here. I would encourage believers
there in Texas, even those who are not
particularly focused upon evangelizing Mormons,
to find the time to visit the temple during the
Open House. Such a visit will help you to
understand the LDS faith much better: of course,
you won't really get any in-depth information
from the guide during the visit, however, if you
ever read up on the actual endowment ceremony,
you will have a much better position from which
to visualize the temple endowment ceremony.
And, I have found that such close-quarters
contact with LDS often results in Christians
becoming more sensitive to the need to share
with the Mormon people.
11/25/04:
Some Thoughts on the
Giving of Thanks
It is so very strange to hear the new
American way of speaking of “being thankful.”
Normally, when you are thankful, the object
of your thankfulness is known and understood.
But given the inroads secularists have made in
twisting our laws and the intentions of the
founders of this nation, we now have the odd
specter of object-less giving of thanks. “I am
thankful for my mommy and my daddy” is OK (being
thankful for your daddy and your other daddy is
even more PC), but you can not ask, “to whom are
you thankful?” Thanks has been relegated to a
warm, but very general and vague, feeling. It
might be best to be thankful to Big Brother for
all things: giving thanks to government is
alright, but don’t you dare give thanks to
God since that might cause a secularist’s
feelings to be hurt, and that is nigh unto the
unpardonable sin.
But the fact is that
“thanksgiving” means “the giving of thanks” and
when you “give” thanks you give it to someone identifiable.
As Washington’s pronouncement below proves,
there is no question about what was intended by
the Thanksgiving holiday. It is a time for
giving thanks to God for His bountiful
blessings. The giving of thanks is not only a
hallmark of Christian character, but it is a
duty incumbent upon all men. Note the words of
Paul:
For since the creation of the world His
invisible attributes, His eternal power and
divine nature, have been clearly seen, being
understood through what has been made, so
that they are without excuse. For even
though they knew God, they did not honor Him
as God or give thanks, but they became
futile in their speculations, and their
foolish heart was darkened. (Rom. 1:20-21)
God’s revelation, both externally in creation
and internally within man’s conscience (for so I
understand Paul’s intention) is so clear, so
compelling, and so perspicuous, that man is left
“without an apology,” i.e., without excuse
(literally, a defense). For though they knew
God, they did not honor Him as God or give
thanks. Two duties incumbent upon mankind as
God’s creature: to honor Him as God, that is,
to show Him deference and to give to Him the
fear, the respect, due to the Potter on the part
of the pots. And the second is to give thanks.
Men know they should thank God. They know all
good gifts come down from Him, and that they do
not deserve the blessings they receive. Men are
held accountable to give God thanks, and
to refuse to do so is to demonstrate the impact
of sin upon the heart and mind: refusing to give
thanks to God reflects a foolish, darkened heart
and vain, futile speculation.
It is no wonder, then, that giving of
thanks is one of the most commonly noted results
of regeneration itself: if it is natural for the
creature to give thanks (outside the twisted
opposition of sin), then it follows when a
God-hater is turned to a God-lover, thanksgiving
will flow from that redeemed heart. As the Word
reminds us:
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by
prayer and supplication with thanksgiving
let your requests be made known to God.
(Phil. 4:6)
Devote yourselves to prayer, keeping alert
in it with [an attitude of] thanksgiving;
(Col. 4:2)
you will be enriched in everything for all
liberality, which through us is producing
thanksgiving to God. (2Cor. 9:11)
Some Thanksgiving Humor (thanks, Jim Broyles!)
The Parrot
A young man named Ray received a parrot as a gift.
The parrot had a bad attitude and an even worse
vocabulary. Every word out of the bird's mouth
was rude, insulting, and laced with profanity.
Ray tried and tried to change the bird's
attitude by consistently saying only polite
words, playing soft music, reading poetry, and
anything else he could think of to "clean up"
the bird's vocabulary. Finally, Ray was fed up
and he yelled at the parrot. The parrot yelled
back. Ray shook the parrot and the parrot got
angrier and even ruder. Ray, in desperation,
threw up his hands, grabbed the bird and put him
in the freezer. For a few minutes the parrot
squawked and kicked and screamed. Then suddenly
there was total silence. Not a peep was heard
for over a minute. Fearing that he'd hurt the
parrot, Ray quickly opened the door to the
freezer. The parrot calmly stepped out onto
Ray's outstretched arms and said, "I believe I
may have offended you with my rude language and
inappropriate actions. I'm sincerely remorseful
for my transgressions and I fully intend to do
everything I can to correct my rude and
unforgivable behavior."
Ray was stunned at the change in the bird's attitude.
As he was about to ask the parrot what had made
such a dramatic change in his behavior, the bird
continued, "May I ask what the turkey did?"
No Dividing Line Today
Rich and I are with our families. May the Lord
bless your giving of thanks this day.
11/24/04: Mouw
Still Confused
Dr. Mouw
simply does not seem to understand the central
issue in Mormon apologetics. Here's a
Baptist Press article you might wish to
review. Let me try to state it clearly,
though this may be counter-productive, as
clarity does not seem to be the aim of so much
of the Academy today: Christianity is
monotheistic. This is not an arguable
statement. It is not that Christianity
just "favors" monotheism, or that we think it is
"better" to be monotheistic, than, say, di-theistic
or henotheistic or polytheistic.
Christianity is monotheistic, period. One
true God. You have multiple gods?
Sorry, you aren't a Christian. Now, such a
statement lacks nuance, I well know, but Elijah
lacked a fair amount of nuance on Mt. Carmel,
the Lord Jesus dismissed nuance in dealing with
the Pharisees, and Paul never heard of political
correctness, especially when he informed the
Galatians that they had once worshipped those
which by nature were not gods at all! You
do not show Christian love to a person who has
been ensnared in idolatrous falsehood by seeking
to nudge them a little into a little less
idolatrous stance. You speak the truth to
them in love, taking the time to know what they
believe (something Mouw has only done with
Millet or Robinson, not with the actual
teachings of the General Authorities of the LDS
Church and the body of the LDS faithful who this
day are going through the endowment ceremony so
as to gain the very exaltation that Mouw has
been deceived into thinking is no longer a
functional LDS belief) so that you may
communicate with them with clarity and accuracy.
And as I documented below (and in the seventy
six pages found in Is the Mormon My Brother?),
as of the night of Mouw's comments in Salt Lake
City, Mormons still believe God is an exalted
man and that men are gods in embryo.
11/23/04: The
ACLU's Worst Nightmare
The
Anti-Christian Litigation Union is busily
running about the US doing all it can to protect
the sensitive souls of atheists from any public
appearance of religion once again this holiday
season. But if you really want to know the
truth, listen to George Washington's
establishment of the observance of Thanksgiving:
George Washington's 1789 Thanksgiving
Proclamation
Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge
the providence of Almighty God, to obey
His will, to be grateful for His
benefits, and humbly to implore His
protection and favor; and Whereas both
Houses of Congress have, by their joint
committee, requested me "to recommend to
the people of the United States a day of
public thanksgiving and prayer, to be
observed by acknowledging with grateful
hearts the many and signal favors of
Almighty God, especially by affording
them an opportunity peaceably to
establish a form of government for their
safety and happiness:"
Now, therefore, I do recommend and assign Thursday, the
26th day of November next, to be devoted
by the people of these States to the
service of that great and glorious Being
who is the beneficent author of all the
good that was, that is, or that will be;
that we may then all unite in rendering
unto Him our sincere and humble thanks
for His kind care and protection of the
people of this country previous to their
becoming a nation; for the signal and
manifold mercies and the favorable
interpositions of His providence in the
course and conclusion of the late war;
for the great degree of tranquility,
union, and plenty which we have since
enjoyed; for the peaceable and rational
manner in which we have been enable to
establish constitutions of government
for our safety and happiness, and
particularly the national one now lately
instituted' for the civil and religious
liberty with which we are blessed, and
the means we have of acquiring and
diffusing useful knowledge; and, in
general, for all the great and various
favors which He has been pleased to
confer upon us.
And also that we may then unite in most humbly offering
our prayers and supplications to the
great Lord and Ruler of Nations and
beseech Him to pardon our national and
other transgressions; to enable us all,
whether in public or private stations,
to perform our several and relative
duties properly and punctually; to
render our National Government a
blessing to all the people by constantly
being a Government of wise, just, and
constitutional laws, discreetly and
faithfully executed and obeyed; to
protect and guide all sovereigns and
nations (especially such as have show
kindness to us), and to bless them with
good governments, peace, and concord; to
promote the knowledge and practice of
true religion and virtue, and the
increase of science among them and us;
and, generally to grant unto all mankind
such a degree of temporal prosperity as
He alone knows to be best.
Given under my hand, at the city of New
York, the 3d day of October, A.D. 1789.
(signed) G. Washington
11/22/04:
Fuller President Apologizes to Mormons in Error
One of the key
developments of late that has caused many to question the
validity of at least some of the evangelicals who spoke in
the LDS Tabernacle in Salt Lake City has to do with the fact
that some, such as Richard Mouw of Fuller Seminary, have
chosen, whether out of ignorance or hubris, to attack all of
those who have ministered in proclaiming the gospel to
Mormons for years and indeed decades. His comments in the
Tabernacle were not only an implicit endorsement of the
defensive posture of FARMS and others (can you hear them
rejoicing?), but a blanket condemnation of anyone who would
approach Mormonism as a false religion that condemns its
followers with a false God, a false Christ, and a false
gospel.
For the sake of context and for those who have not been
following the discussion, Richard Mouw,
President of Fuller Theological Seminary in
Pasadena, California (yes, I graduated from
Fuller in 1989 with an M.A. in Theology) was one
of those who spoke in the Mormon Tabernacle in
Salt Lake City recently. His comments were
brief, but have set off a firestorm of response
simply because he chose to follow the path laid
out by Mosser and Owen: make friends with Mormon
scholars by shooting in the head all those who
have ministered to Mormons for years before you.
It is evidently a successful strategy.
Here is the key section of his comments:
On a personal level, over the
past half-dozen years I have been a member
of a small group of evangelical scholars who
have been engaged in lengthy closed-door
discussions about spiritual and theological
matters with a small group of our LDS
counterparts. We have not been afraid to
argue strenuously with each other, but our
arguments have been conducted in a sincere
desire genuinely to understand each
other-and in the process we have formed some
deep bonds of friendship. I know that I
have learned much in this continuing
dialogue, and I am now convinced that we
evangelicals have often seriously
misrepresented the beliefs and practices of
the Mormon community. Indeed, let me state
it bluntly to the LDS folks here this
evening: we have sinned against you. The God
of the Scriptures makes it clear that it is
a terrible thing to bear false witness
against our neighbors, and we have been
guilty of that sort of transgression in
things we have said about you. We have told
you what you believe without making a
sincere effort first of all to ask
you what you believe. We have made much of
the need to provide you with a strong
defense of traditional Christian
convictions, regularly quoting the Apostle
Peter's mandate that we present to people
like you a reasoned account of the hope that
lies with in us-but we have not been careful
to follow the same Apostle's counsel that
immediately follows that mandate, when he
tells us that we must always make our case
with "gentleness and reverence" toward those
with whom we are speaking. Indeed, we have
even on occasion demonized you, weaving
conspiracy theories about what the LDS
community is "really" trying to accomplish
in the world. And even at our best, we
have-and this is true of both of our
communities-we have talked past each other,
setting forth oversimplified and distorted
accounts of what the other group believes.
Now,
of course, the question is, who is the "we" for
whom Mouw assumes to speak? It surely is
not me, nor fine folks like Jerald and Sandra
Tanner, or Bill McKeever. So who is it?
Well, there surely have been those who have
weaved conspiracy theories into their books.
I have been openly and consistently critical of
the excesses found in such books as God Makers
II. I have criticized the sensationalism
of many works produced on the subject of
Mormonism, and have refused to engage in such
behavior in the writing and publishing of two
books on the subject, and in public debates with
LDS apologists. But it seems clear that
Mouw has fallen into the same trap that ensnared
Dr. Blomberg not so long ago: that of thinking
that LDS scholars at BYU define Mormonism.
And because of this very narrow exposure to a
very narrow spectrum of LDS belief, Mouw has
denounced many who have a thousand times his
experience and knowledge of Mormonism as having
dishonestly misrepresented the Mormon people.
Excuse us, please, if we point out that it is
Dr. Mouw who owes the apologies here. [continue
this article]
11/21/04: Issues,
Etc. Tonight!
My apologies
for not noting that I will be on the national
radio broadcast of Issues, Etc., this evening at
10PM CT.
Here is
the link. The subject will be my book,
Scripture Alone.
11/19/04: Dan
Brown and His Fiction of Renown
My apologies to all the Les Brown fans out
there. I am so utterly sick of The Da
Vinci Code I don't know what to do with
myself, but it is not going away, and with a
movie now in the works, it is time to make every
believer an expert on the issues involved.
A plethora of books/booklets have come out in response
to Brown's work of pseudo-fiction (I say that
because he has come to believe his own fiction,
and clearly the book is intended to communicate
an underlying matrix of "facts" even while
presenting them in an allegedly fictional
milieu), but all of them combined won't touch
1/3 of the audience of over 6 million that the
book itself has reached. I can't walk
through an airport without seeing it on store
shelves or, more troubling, in someone's hand,
being read. The clearly anti-Christian
character of the book is, in our modern society,
one of its selling points. Bashing Christ
sells.
One of the reasons the books that have been written in
response are rather brief is simple: how many
ways can you say, "That's absurd, and since
there isn't even an effort made to seriously
ground that claim in reality, what more can be
said?" It only takes a few pages to
express utter and complete disdain for the
fallacious nature of the book's "history," so
after that, you can rap up fairly quickly.
But one is still amazed at the brazen falsehoods
that Brown has promulgated while raking in his
millions of dollars. Here is a glowing
example from p. 233 of TDC:
"Indeed," Teabing said. "Stay with me.
During this fusion of religions, Constantine
needed to strengthen the new Christian
religion, and held a famous ecumenical
gathering known as the Council of Nicaea."
Sophie had heard of it only insofar as its being the
birthplace of the Nicene Creed.
"At this gathering," Teabing said, "many aspects of
Christianity were debated and voted
upon---the date of Easter, the role of the
bishops, the administration of sacraments,
and, of course, the divinity of
Jesus."
"I don't follow. His divinity?"
"My dear," Teabing declared, "until that moment
in history, Jesus was viewed by His
followers as a mortal prophet . . . a great
and powerful man, but a man
nonetheless. A mortal."
"Not the Son of God?"
"Right," Teabing said, "Jesus' establishment as 'the
Son of God' was officially proposed and
voted on by the Council of Nicaea."
"Hold on. You're saying Jesus' divinity was the
result of a vote?"
"A relatively close vote at that," Teabing added.
Given that only two participants did not sign
the creed, how is a vote of 99% to 1%
"relatively close"? If Brown showed any
kind of seriousness in researching the rest of
the story, one might extend some grace at
this point and discuss the real issues of the
council, the homoousios, homoiousios, and
heteroousios positions, but since Brown does
not, we need not concern ourselves. But
notice the claim that "until that moment
in history" (italics in the original) Jesus had
been viewed as a mere mortal, and that the
concept of his deity (divinity) was, plainly,
the brainchild of Constantine. Such an
utterly absurd claim is so easily refuted
that it makes one wonder at the audacity of
someone who could collect millions for putting
it in print. The Council of Nicaea met in
AD 325. More than two centuries earlier
the following words were written by Ignatius,
the bishop of Antioch: [continue
with the article]
11/16/04: David
Cloud: Brave Behind the
Keyboard, Less Willing to Answer
I guess it
is a matter of figuring anyone Gail Riplinger
would attack can't be all bad, but I've
always kept David Cloud, a well known KJV Only
fundamentalist writer, in a little different
"group" in my thinking than most of the rest of
the KJV Only crowd. But of late I've had
to rethink that, given his adding anti-Calvinism
to his repertoire. I noted lately that
Cloud had posted a wonderfully fair and unbiased
review of Debating Calvinism, and in
response, I had contacted him once again and
offered him the opportunity of engaging the
topic of God's sovereign grace in salvation over
against his synergistic beliefs on the DL.
And, as always, he declined the challenge to
debate, even though I made it clear that we
would call him at his leisure. But the
back and forth has continued. Today I
pointed out to him that if he was consistent, he
and his fellow KJV Only writers would have a
literal cow over Hunt's handling of Acts
13:48 in both What Love is This? as well
as in Debating Calvinism. It would
be so useful to ask David Cloud direct,
exegetical questions on passages like that, and
on John 6. But alas, despite our best
efforts, fundamentalistic Arminians insist upon
hiding behind their keyboards while frantically
warning their ever shrinking audiences of the
great dangers of "Calvinism." Cloud
constantly beats the (proper) drum of needing to
be biblically faithful while at the same time
avoiding responsible challenges to his
unbiblical dedication to inconsistent
Arminianism. Sorry, but if Cloud had
contacted me after I had written something about
him, and challenged me to stand behind what I
had written on his program, I would have
been happy to oblige. For some odd reason,
that doesn't work in reverse. Strange,
isn't it? The invitation/challenge stands.
The A&O
Group on Formal Night
Well, there
we are! The photographer almost had a cow
when we showed up for our picture. "How
many of you are there?" A few folks missed
out, but this is the main group. Yeah, you
could say they knew we were on the boat. I
think the only larger group was the bridge
tournament group. Ironically, they played
in this enclosed room for hours on end, which
made me wonder, "Uh, why bother doing this on a
ship, anyway?" Again, what a great group
of folks made up the A&O contingent. Hope
to see you all, and many more, next year!
11/15/04: Missing
the Point: Repeatedly
I was looking over yet another "statement" offered by
an ecclesiastical body or group regarding the
Auburn Avenue controversy, and I was once again
struck by the fact that it is tremendously rare
to find a meaningful response simply because no
one, evidently, is willing to accurately
represent the diversity of opinion expressed by
authors loosely identified with the "Federal
Vision" viewpoint. As I was reading the
list of things supposed affirmed or denied just
now, I found that about 30% of what was said
would accurately represent Douglas Wilson's
view, but about 70% he has vehemently denied.
I guess there are some of the more radical
writers who would be accurately identified by
some of the statements, but as a group, the list
of affirmations and denials was another example
of straw-man argumentation.
What really bothers me about the consistency of these
misrepresentations is just that the real issues
are almost never addressed because so much of
the time is spent on both sides making charges
and counter-charges and trying to correct
misapprehensions and the like. Are the
Federal Vision folks at least partly to blame
for the confusion? Of course.
Sometimes they say things in one context that
would indicate a more radical position than they
are willing to affirm in a less friendly
context. This leads inevitably to
confusion. But I have concluded the
majority of the "I don't think you really meant
what you just said and even if you did I believe
you really mean this" kind of stuff is taking
place, for reasons I cannot begin to plumb, on
the other side of the fence. I haven't
seen much response to the Wilson debate as yet
(and probably won't until the DVD's come out,
hopefully very soon), but outside of the
inevitable few for whom I cannot even pronounce
my own name without error or various levels of
incompetence or stupidity (i.e., writers for
reformedcatholicism.com), I really do not expect
to hear the criticism that I misrepresented
Wilson's viewpoints. I refuse to add to
the fog bank of confusion that exists already.
My desire was to clarify, not confuse.
11/6/04: Weigh Anchor!
Well, here we go! Debate last night,
conference today, headed to sea tomorrow.
Great group of folks headed to sea for seven
days including numerous presentations on
justification (along with other things).
Steve Camp will be singing, Phil Johnson and
David King will be speaking (I will as well, of
course). I'll report on the debate on the
Dividing Line when we get back next week,
but I'll just say that the only ones
disappointed were probably the ones expecting
some mean spirited blood bath. I will try
to post a few items from sea!
11/4/04: Greetings from LALA Land
In God's providence I was on the same shuttle
bus that picked up Doug Wilson at the airport
today, and as we were riding to the hotel he
said, "I've only been in this blue state for ten
minutes, and I already feel icky." Yes
indeed, I know the feeling. But you can
look at it in a positive way: it's easy to stay
in the red if you want. In fact, there's a
lot more red here in California than blue!
:-)
Anyway, as I was looking over the blogs I find
that Eric Svendsen is going to enjoy his time
out here tomorrow and Saturday, if for no other
reason than he should get a little time away
from a certain Roman Catholic internet apologist
who evidently only needs two hours of sleep a
night and has the utterly annoying habit of
parsing every sentence, every clause, resulting
in these massive core-dumps of text that rarely
accomplish anything at all. Welcome to CA,
Eric! Enjoy your vacation.
Finally, I sure am glad I'm a Calvinist today.
See, unlike folks who tout "libertarian free
will" and the like, I happen to believe that
when I pray, "Oh God, if it pleases You, give
the President of our nation divine guidance and
wisdom in selecting men who will interpret our
Constitution as it was intended, and who will do
justice in the highest court in our land so that
our children's children will be benefited," I am
praying to the God who turns the king's heart as
He desires (not as the king desires, Prov. 16:9,
21:1) and who can, in fact, fulfill the desire
expressed in my prayer (and that is my
prayer, I assure you). I sometimes wonder
why folks pray to God and ask for such things
while, at the same time, teaching that God would
never, ever, do the very things they are asking
Him to do! Yes, I know. Our prayers
are often much better then our practice.
Quick Thought
Just a quick entry. I am packing for the trip
and have to run by the store. I grab a bite to
eat at KFC (had a hankering for corn on the
cob!) and sit down at our kitchen counter to
eat. We don't have cable or satellite (no, I
just know I'd spend way too much time watching
the History Channel and fighting with my son
over watching Sports Center for the 4th time in
a row), so I'm trying to find something about
the election on this tiny little 4-inch b&w TV
we have sitting on top of the microwave. And
since I couldn't find anything, I ended up doing
something odd: I turned to that channel between
20 and 22, that network that has like
$700,000,000 more than it needs but is always
begging for money anyway, and lo and behold
there's a couple preaching--no, "prophesying,"
with the last name of White! I guess they are
from Florida somewhere. The woman was
rat-a-tatting along like T.D. Jakes, promising
that if you get up and go to the phone and
pledge $84.11 per month for a year then, well,
everything good is going to happen to you. She
kept quoting, out of context, of course, a
portion from Psalm 84:11, though I didn't hear
much about the "walking uprightly" part. In
fact, I didn't hear anything distinctly
Christian the entire time I was eating. But I
did hear a lot about giving $84.11 to a bunch of
filthy rich heretics.
At one point the husband managed to get a word in
edgewise and he started talking about "favor"
(he was "prophesying" from Exodus 3:21: watching
them do tag-team eisegesis for money was truly
amazing). I about choked on a bite of
wonderfully yummy buttermilk biscuit as he came
up with a financially-based definition
about getting lots of money from God by calling
this TV network. At one point my wife stopped
packing long enough to wander by and watch for a
moment. "See, honey," I said, "that's what you
need to start doing. That's why we don't have a
big house and lots of money." She gave me the
"oh brother" look and went back to packing.
Every time I take a few moments to turn on that channel
I am reminded once again about how utterly
foreign the religion they peddle and sell is
from that found in the Bible. I know, they talk
about the Bible, and for some reason a few
genuine Christians fall through a trap door and
end up like a fish out of water on their stage,
but in general the Bible exists there only to be
eisegetically tortured into a money-making prop
for a bunch of false prophets and charlatans who
know exactly what they are doing all along. I
used to wonder who would say to God someday,
"But Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name??"
but I really don't wonder about that part
anymore. I now realize that they will then add
"And we even have video to prove it!" Jesus'
answer will be the same, despite the video
archives.
Headed to California
I apologize for not getting to the textual
variation discussion as I had planned, but the
best laid plans of mice and men and all (and I
would rarely call what I do these days "best
laid plans"). I am traveling to LA today,
and will try, as best I can, to get something
blogged before the debate, and, if possible, a
quick report on it once it is completed.
But then it will become rather quiet around
here, for if you have ever purchased Internet
time while at sea, well, you know why I will be
real scarce. I may try to get a brief note
to the office here to see if it can be posted
just to let you all know how things are going at
sea. Otherwise, I hope to be back into the
blogosphere on the 15th of November.
I am very thankful that the conference this weekend
will not be distracted by national events.
I could not help but think this afternoon as I
watched President Bush greeting his supporters
that as they were applauding and waving flags
and the like he was thinking, "This is what I
missed four years ago." He sort of had
that look in his eyes. Of course, if I had
been keeping the schedule he had been keeping
for a few months, the look in my eyes would mean
absolutely nothing, as there would be no brain
activity going on behind them. :-)
11/2/04: An Election Day Prayer
Father, my nation has no basis upon which to
seek Your blessing. You are the King of
Kings, the ruler over all nations, and You know
how deeply my country has offended Your honor
and Your law. My people seek every
opportunity to engage in rebellion, and You have
begun to place over us men and women who are
open in their hatred of Your truth and Your
Word. We know Your wrath is already being
seen in our self-destructive, life-loathing
murder of unborn children, and in our perverse
willingness to distort the very first
institution You established among men, marriage.
I confess Your judgment is just.
I likewise know, oh Lord, that You often use Your
judgments to bring repentance amongst men. And
so Lord I pray that You will indeed bring
repentance in this land, and that You would do
so as you see fit. I know this may involve
further judgment and I may have to count the
cost daily of following You as Your enemies grow
bolder and bolder in their rush into
destruction. Whatever Your sovereign will,
I ask that Your people would be faithful in
seeking Your honor and glory in all things.
But though I know Your judgment to be just, I also know
you to be a merciful God. And so, Lord, I
pray Your mercy will be seen this day in this
land. I pray that you will protect us from
ungodly leaders, and instead will show mercy and
grace to our children's children. Work so
as to bring an end to the murder of unborn
children in our land. Work so as to revive
the basic conscience of men and women so that
the progress of those seeking to pervert our
nation through homosexuality and "same-sex
marriage" will be stopped. Show Yourself
powerful, Lord, in restraining the wicked, and
emboldening Your people who love You as we seek
to stand for Your truth, to Your glory.
May You indeed bless our nation, not with
material wealth, but with true repentance.
In whatever takes place this day, Lord, our prayer is
that righteousness will be exalted, and
wickedness defeated. And in all
situations, may we be found faithful to give You
all the honor and glory, through Jesus Christ
our Lord, Amen.
11/1/04:
Back from Peoria
Had a great
time at Bethany Baptist in Peoria, IL, speaking
on the Five Solas in celebration of
Reformation Day. Also got to spend some
time talking with unbelievers at Bradley
University there in Peoria (quite a challenge!).
Have only a few days at home before heading to
LA for our national conference, debate, and
cruise!
Cloud Unwilling to
Appear
I invited David Cloud to defend his constant attacks
upon Calvinism on The Dividing Line.
I also made sure he knew we would arrange
our schedule in any fashion necessary to meet
his time frame. His response, as usual,
was to decline the challenge. He seems to
feel he has the right to allege, the right to
attack, but has no responsibility to be held
accountable for his statements. A sad
commentary indeed.
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